The Aquarian Message, Question re: chapter 31- Javhe Options

[Elysa]

In Chapter 31 - The Millennium and the Judgement of the book the Aquarian Message there is one sentence that reads:

"The Jewish people worship Jahve and they follow Jahve."

Does the master mean to say that the God of Moses and of Abraham is Satan? Does this mean that for so many thousand years the Jews have been devil worshippers? How can this be? Can someone please elaborate on this statement?

Love and Peace
Alyse

[AmItheOnethatIam...]

In Chapter 31 - The Millennium and the Judgement of the  book the Aquarian Message there is one sentence that reads:

"The Jewish people worship Jahve and they follow Jahve."

Does the master mean to say that the God of Moses and of Abraham is Satan?  Does this mean that for so many thousand years the Jews have been devil worshippers?  How can this be?  Can someone please elaborate on this statement?

Love and Peace
Alyse

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Javhe called the Jewish people “my chosen people”. Kabbalist Jews have intentionally intermingled Javhe with the Lord Jehovah.

Even conventional Christians ignorantly and fanatically follow Javhe. Nevertheless, they all hide behind the cross.

All Religious organizations which are presently known in this physical world that do not teach the path of Scientific Chastity are controlled by the Black Lodge. When they know about Scientific Chastity and they do not teach it, it is because such organizations fell into the hands of Javhe.

[Ralph]

The above seems at odds with the conventional view that Jesus of Nazareth and his followers were (or acted as if they were) observant Jews.

What of Moses, David, Solomon, etc.? Does Gnosis mean to say with authority that all observant Jews in history, and at the present time, are and have been followers of the chief of demons?

The way I've had it explained to me (not by a Gnosis instructor) is that some medieval Jews, perfectly aware of the difference between the entity we call Jehovah (or several similar-sounding names), were disturbed that some Christians were investigating the kabbalah and esoteric Judaism, and allowed them to believe that the "long-lost true" pronunciation of YHVH is in the manner of the name of the chief of demons.

For sure, the name of the prince of demons is taught by many Christians as the "correct" pronunciation of YHVH. In fact, that name has made it into several hymnbooks and textbooks.

Also, for sure, some of the OT images of God (vengeful, destroying) are remarkably different from the NT image of God (loving, kind). Hmmm.

[AmItheOnethatIam...]

The above seems at odds with the conventional view that Jesus of Nazareth and his followers were (or acted as if they were) observant Jews.

What of Moses, David, Solomon, etc.? Does Gnosis mean to say with authority that all observant Jews in history, and at the present time, are and have been followers of the chief of demons?

The way I've had it explained to me (not by a Gnosis instructor) is that some medieval Jews, perfectly aware of the difference between the entity we call Jehovah (or several similar-sounding names), were disturbed that some Christians were investigating the kabbalah and esoteric Judaism, and allowed them to believe that the "long-lost true" pronunciation of YHVH is in the manner of the name of the chief of demons.

For sure, the name of the prince of demons is taught by many Christians as the "correct" pronunciation of YHVH. In fact, that name has made it into several hymnbooks and textbooks.

Also, for sure, some of the OT images of God (vengeful, destroying) are remarkably different from the NT image of God (loving, kind). Hmmm.

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Blessed be all of the Holy Masters from the Jewish Religion: Moses, and all of the Prophets, David, Solomon, etc……

But, let it be known now and forever that:

“The Roman soldiers who crucified the Adorable One constituted the honorable guards of Javhe (and Caiaphas). Thus, this is why Javhe is now crucified within the abyss. This is his karma; the cross of the devil is inverted. Therefore, Javhe is crucified with his head downwards and his feet upwards.”

“Javhe has a very grave Karma, since he was the secret perpetrator of the crucifixion of Christ (or torture of the physical body of Jesus), and Javhe is also directly responsible for the failure of human evolution on the Earth.”

[Ralph]

Blessed be all of the Holy Masters from the Jewish Religion: Moses, and all of the Prophets, David, Solomon, etc……

But, let it be known now and forever that:

“The Roman soldiers who crucified the Adorable One constituted the honorable guards of Javhe (and Caiaphas).  Thus, this is why Javhe is now crucified within the abyss.  This is his karma; the cross of the devil is inverted.  Therefore, Javhe is crucified with his head downwards and his feet upwards.” 

“Javhe has a very grave Karma, since he was the secret perpetrator of the crucifixion of Christ (or torture of the physical body of Jesus), and Javhe is also directly responsible for the failure of human evolution on the Earth.”

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Continuing on, then...
Irenaeus of Lyons writes that humanity's capacity for growth towards God requires contact with both what we learned ignoramuses call "good" and "evil", so that we might have the opportunity to (as the Bible says) "choose good". Keats calls the world a "vale of soul-making", reminding one of Master Samael's concept of the physical world as a "psychological gymnasium". Thus, both "good" and "evil" seem to serve a purpose in this imperfect world.

Yet, from Old Testament times to this day, we lament the presence of evil and suffering in the world, while affirming the inherent goodness of God, as well as his redeeming nature.

In modern Gnosis theology, it seems that the chief of demons is described as a reflection of Kether in the Klipoth, rather than a completely separate entity, at some point after the fall of Lemuria. But, also a great fallen angel, a fallen Master. Was he the origin of the kundabuffer and black tantra, or did they exist before his fall?

The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness...wasn't that necessary, as it was with Job? Isn't it necessary for all of us to resist the temptations and renounce the devil?

The life and death of Jesus Christ. An enactment of the cosmic drama in the physical? If so, wasn't the physical crucifixion of Jesus also necessary (and in accordance with God's plan to redeem humanity), as it still is with us today?

Wouldn't the chief of demons be crucified in an inverted position because he is the opposite of Christ? Does that relate to the symbolism of Peter?

[AmItheOnethatIam...]

Continuing on, then...
Irenaeus of Lyons writes that humanity's capacity for growth towards God requires contact with both what we learned ignoramuses call "good" and "evil", so that we might have the opportunity to (as the Bible says) "choose good". Keats calls the world a "vale of soul-making", reminding one of Master Samael's concept of the physical world as a "psychological gymnasium". Thus, both "good" and "evil" seem to serve a purpose in this imperfect world.

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Better said: that humanity's capacity for growth towards God requires the knowledge of Good and Evil, because to choose good is to become an Ignoramus Pharisee and to choose evil is to become a cunning Sadducee. Tiphereth, the Human Soul is beyond Good and Evil and Malkuth is the soul’s "psychological gymnasium". So, the souls after passing through this filter “Malkuth” enter into Hell or into Heaven!

Yet, from Old Testament times to this day, we lament the presence of evil and suffering in the world, while affirming the inherent goodness of God, as well as his redeeming nature.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

In modern Gnosis theology, it seems that the chief of demons is described as a reflection of Kether in the Klipoth, rather than a completely separate entity, at some point after the fall of Lemuria. But, also a great fallen angel, a fallen Master. Was he the origin of the kundabuffer and black tantra, or did they exist before his fall?

Javhe eventually will return to his inner star, because the end is equal to the beginning, plus the experience of the inning (or the chance for accomplishment)! However, he has to pay first what he owes throughout many Mahamanvantaras!

“Frankly, I had believed that the case of only a few being saved and the great majority being lost could only apply to the Earth, and in the past Mahamanvantara to the Earth-Moon, but that in the rest of the worlds things were different. The Angel pointed out this error when he said, “And this that has happened on the Earth will always be repeated in all the worlds of the infinite space.” Perfect Matrimony

So, The kundabuffer organ and black tantra exist for all eternity!

The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness...wasn't that necessary, as it was with Job? Isn't it necessary for all of us to resist the temptations and renounce the devil?

Even the Gods tempt the solitary walker of the Octuple Path, but they never torture anyone. i.e. Hitler knew about the plans of Javhe and his Zionism, thus, wanted to defeat them; he used the holy symbol of the swastika in the wrong way by committing horrendous crimes against innocent elders, women and children that did not have anything to do with Javhe and his black magicians! So, assassination is never necessary in order to accomplish the Divine Plan!

The life and death of Jesus Christ. An enactment of the cosmic drama in the physical? If so, wasn't the physical crucifixion of Jesus also necessary (and in accordance with God's plan to redeem humanity), as it still is with us today?

NO!

"When the Elohim or Glorious Dhyanis started to weave in the Loom of God, they cried with pain when contemplating the twilight of the Uncreated Light that seemed to sink as a frightful setting sun.

"Then Jesus Christ, the Great Paramartha-satya, passed through the Dhyani-paza and came into the cosmic garden to save the Gods, whose innumerable virginal sparks or Jivas are devolving and evolving during this Mahakalpa.

"I, Samael Aun Weor, was witness of all of these things. I saw when that Great Being entered the sanctuary and signed a pact of salvation for human beings and he crucified himself on his cross.

"I witness the dawn of the Mahamanvantara and give testimony of all of these things.
Later on, at the dawn of the fourth round, the Master sent his Buddha in order for him to prepare himself in this valley of tears. That Buddha is his soul called Jesus.
And his Buddha lit his seven eternal lamps.

"And his Buddha raised his seven serpents throughout the seven canals of the candlestick.
Thus, when his Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, was prepared, there in the Jordan, his Resplendent Dragon of Wisdom entered within him in order to preach human beings and Gods.

"The sacrifice already happened on that occasion. The commander of all Cosmic Christs, Jesus of Nazareth, already washed with his blood all the sins of the sanctuary and signed the pact between human beings and Kwan-Yin, the Army of the Voice, Vishnu, Osiris, the Great Breath." Samael Aun Weor

Wouldn't the chief of demons be crucified in an inverted position because he is the opposite of Christ? Does that relate to the symbolism of Peter?

The inverted cross of Javhe means that the mental power of a demon (his horns) is developed because of fornication; the inverted cross of Javhe will endure one thousand years. “A thousand years” signifies various thousands of years. In other words, Javhe and his people will remain within the abyss during the whole luminous cycle of Aquarius. Yet, in the cycle of Capricorn, the last opportunity for their repentance on our Earth will be granted to them.”

However, Peter exercises control of the sexual energy through the pineal gland, this is why:

“Peter (physically) died crucified on the inverted cross, with his head (pineal gland) towards the ground and his feet towards the heavens, as if he is inviting us to (use our willpower to) descend into the Forge of the Cyclops, into the Ninth Sphere, in order to work with the fire and water, origin of worlds, beasts, humans and Gods. Every authentic White Initiation begins here.”

[Chela]

The inverted cross of Javhe means that the mental power of a demon (his horns) is developed  because of fornication;

The horns of Moses then represent the mental powers of the Being? Or something else?

[AmItheOnethatIam...]

The inverted cross of Javhe means that the mental power of a demon (his horns) is developed  because of fornication;

The horns of Moses then represent the mental powers of the Being? Or something else?

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"Moses, descending from Sinai with the luminous horns upon his forehead, deserved to be chiselled by Michelangelo.

"The Doctrine of Moses is the Doctrine of Lucifer.

"Christus-Lucifer is our Saviour, the Redeemer of Pistis Sophia.

"Christus-Lucifer grasps the scale and the sword as a Lord of Justice.

"Lucifer, integrated with the Intimate Christ, shines in Sabaoth, the Solar Man.

"The Heavenly Sabaoth crystallizes within the Sabaoth-Man, thanks to the Intimate Moses.

"Sabaoth-Moses are totally integrated.

"Sabaoth is the Internal God who must crystallize in the human person, thanks to the good duties of Lucifer (and the Intimate Moses).

"The Antichrist, the ego, knows nothing about these things. He merely wants a mechanical man and a universe originated by chance, an absurd miracle from the reason without reason.

"On the other hand, religion hates Lucifer, and curses Him without knowing that he is a sunderable part of the Intimate Christ."
Samael Aun Weor


Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh Adonai Sabaoth

[Elysa]

This is harsh and alarming. Is the Doctrine of Moses not the ten commandments? Why does Master Samael single the jewish people out in this statement, why not other peoples, religions, gods? Are Jews all doomed to the abyss?

[kazz]

Elysa, I doubt by "jewish people" is meant ALL jewish people...


I have an offtopic clarification question on Lucifer.

From Kaballah course it seems Christ = Lucifer, in this thread, Christus-Lucifer is our Saviour. So then how come Perfect Matrimony makes references to things such as "Luciferic forces of evil", ""I" is Lucifer, Satan" etc?

Is it the correct understanding that the doctrine taught by SAW teaches that Christ is Lucifer, Lucifer is Satan, Satan is "I", "I" is ego and ego is Antichrist? Can someone please clarify this?

[Twin Brother]

Elysa, I doubt by "jewish people" is meant ALL jewish people...


I have an offtopic clarification question on Lucifer.

From Kaballah course it seems Christ = Lucifer, in this thread, Christus-Lucifer is our Saviour. So then how come Perfect Matrimony makes references to things such as "Luciferic forces of evil", ""I" is Lucifer, Satan" etc?

Is it the correct understanding that the doctrine taught by SAW teaches that Christ is Lucifer, Lucifer is Satan, Satan is "I", "I" is ego and ego is Antichrist? Can someone please clarify this?

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"The code of Lucifer is the Arcanum A.Z.F., the sexual force.

"Unquestionably, the creative power of the Logos is in the creative organs.

"The splendorous, interior, profound Sun shines on the path of the Initiate.

"The luminous sexual force shines most exceedingly in the aura of the Christified Ones.

"In the final synthesis, the sexual force comes from the Light of lights, which is precisely the Logos....."

"It is obvious that through sex we descend, we fall, or we ascend.

"Lucifer, the Maker of Light, is within the Mysteries of sex.

"Lucifer is the stairs to descend. Lucifer is the stairs to ascend.

"We must distinguish between a fall and a descent…."

Those who fall, those who fornicate develop the abominable Kundabuffer organ ("Luciferic forces of evil") and transform (through LUST) the sexual power of their Intimate Lucifer into Satan (the Ego).

"However, when they arise again, the Intimate Christ smites their horrible Python Serpent with seven heads, the Tempting Serpent of Eden (the abominable Kundabuffer organ).

"The Lord raises us above the malignant roots of the tempting serpent so we can disintegrate even its seeds, the filthy germs of lust."

Moses, and the Prophets, David Solomon, Jesus and his Apostles did it; thus any Jew who follows the Path of the Self-realization of the Being CAN DO IT!

For the unworthy all doors are closed, except the door of repentance!

[student]

This is harsh and alarming.  Is the Doctrine of Moses not the ten commandments?  Why does Master Samael single the jewish people out in this statement, why not other peoples, religions, gods?  Are Jews all doomed to the abyss?

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Excerpts from the book: Yes There Is Hell, Evil, Karma
"There exists violence against God in the Marxist-Leninists, pseudo-sages that have taken away the spiritual values from humanity.

"There comes to memory in these moments an encounter with Carl Marx in the submerged worlds (Klipoth).

"I met him in those tenebrous regions; Karl Marx had awakened in evil and for evil; however, he is a fallen Bodhisattva.

"Lenin unconsciously, profoundly asleep, like an evil shadow follows him in the abyss.

"I questioned Karl Marx with the following words: "It has been many years that you died, that your body became dust in the tomb however, I find you alive in these regions (Klipoth). Where did your materialist dialectic lead to?" Karl Marx looking at his wristwatch, did not dare answer me; he turned around and left, but a few meters away, he laughed sarcastically and horrifyingly.

"Through intuition I was able to sense the living essence of such a laugh; in it was the answer that we could summarize with the following phrase: “That dialectic was nothing more than a farce, a dish to fool the unwary.”

"It is curious to note that when Carl Marx died, he received the religious funerary honors of a great rabbi.

"In the First International Communist gathering, Karl Marx stood up, saying: “Gentlemen, I am not Marxist.”

"There was then surprise among the audience, loud shouts, and from there many political sects were born, the Bolsheviks, Mencheviks, anarchists, Anarchist-Unionist, etc.; in this manner, it is interesting to know that the first enemy of Marxism was Karl Marx.

"In a magazine from Paris, one can read the following: “Through the triumph of the world proletariat, we will create the Universal Soviet Socialist Republic with the capital in Jerusalem and we will own all the riches of the nations so that the prophecies of our holy prophets of the Talmud be fulfilled.”

"Certainly these are not the phrases of a materialist or those of any atheist; Marx was a Jewish religious fanatic.

"I do not want in this talk to criticize political matters. I am emphatically referring to essentially occult matters.

"Karl Marx, moved assuredly by religious fanaticism invented a destructive weapon, to reduce to cosmic dust all the religions of the world. Such a weapon is without a doubt, a “jargon” that would never withstand an in-depth analysis. I refer to the materialist dialectic.

"The intellectual rascals know very well that for the elaboration of such a deceiving dish, of such a farce, Marx used Hegel’s materialistic dialectic.

"Evidently he took from this work all the metaphysical values that were given it by its author and with what was left be elaborated his dish. it is not irrelevant to repeat in this talk, that Karl Marx as the author of such a lie, of such a farce, of such Communistic dialectic, never believed in it and because of this was not inconvenienced in confessing his feelings in view of the whole assembly: “Gentlemen, I am not Marxist.”

"Undoubtedly this gentleman only fulfilled one of the Protocols of Zionists (who follow Javhe), that says: “It does not matter if we have to fill the world with materialism and repugnant atheism. The day when we triumph we will teach the religion of Moses universally, coded and in a dialectic manner and we will not permit any other religion in the world.”

"With this I do not want to condemn any race in particular; frankly, I am only referring to some Semitic personages with Machiavellian plans, such as Marx, Lenin, Stalin, etc.

"From a rigorously occultist point of view, I could evince that the mentioned fallen Bodhisattva struggled for divinity in his own way, using an astute weapon to destroy the other religions.

Marx was a priest, a rabbi of the Jewish religion, faithful devotee of the doctrine of his ancestors.

"What does astonish is the credulity of naive persons, that believing themselves erudite, fall into the skeptical trap set by Karl Marx.

"These naive persons of the Marxist-Lenin materialist dialectic obviously became violent against the divinity and because of such a motive entered the seventh Dantesque circle."

Samael Aun Weor

[kazz]

Twin Brother,

Thanks! It's clearer now.

[Ralph]

A tremendously profound discussion emerges.

Gnostic Christology challenges an idiot like me to meditate, keeping the macrocosmic and microcosmic aspects separate and distinct, yet also merging them. The general view in mainstream Christianity seems to be that Jesus gives a more complete revelation of God than did the OT prophets, and that Jesus is the bearer of salvation to God's creatures.

Let's see...in Gnosis, Jesus of Nazareth was the physical body of the second logos. That's more or less congruent with classic Christianity, or at least easy to accept. This was the incarnation (return, reincarnation) of Master Aberamentho, as Enoch was the physical body of the first logos, and the angel Metraton? In Gnosis we read of his mother Miriam, of the symbolism of the name Joseph, and an earthly father named Pandira, a Roman soldier. In all of this, faith comes before knowledge...

He was an initiate of the Mysteries, traveled widely. His time in the desert symbolizes the time we all spend being tempted by the devil. The Bible would imply that he passed all of his tests the first time, unlike us.

In mainstream Christianity, we are taught that his (human) nature was capable of profound suffering (the Garden, the Cross), as are we, and that he took on the sins of the world and died on the cross. (Some would also say that his Godlike nature also suffered.) A macrocosmic enactment of the cosmic drama. It is taught or implied in mainstream Christianity that the crucifixion was an absolute necessity because of our sinful nature. So, the response above ("NO!") warrants careful meditation. I do not yet understand it. In the microcosm, in Gnosis, we are to beg the Spirit and our Mother to incarnate the Christ, and he must be tested, baptized, betrayed, die and resurrect also? Isn't this also necessary? We are to be Christified, and then deified?

Although the chief of demons is crucified upside-down and locked in the abyss, I surely do not feel safe from its influence, for I am also locked in the abyss.

[AmItheOnethatIam...]

A tremendously profound discussion emerges.

Gnostic Christology challenges an idiot like me to meditate, keeping the macrocosmic and microcosmic aspects separate and distinct, yet also merging them. The general view in mainstream Christianity seems to be that Jesus gives a more complete revelation of God than did the OT prophets, and that Jesus is the bearer of salvation to God's creatures.

Let's see...in Gnosis, Jesus of Nazareth was the physical body of the second logos. That's more or less congruent with classic Christianity, or at least easy to accept. This was the incarnation (return, reincarnation) of Master Aberamentho, as Enoch was the physical body of the first logos, and the angel Metraton? In Gnosis we read of his mother Miriam, of the symbolism of the name Joseph, and an earthly father named Pandira, a Roman soldier. In all of this, faith comes before knowledge...

He was an initiate of the Mysteries, traveled widely. His time in the desert symbolizes the time we all spend being tempted by the devil. The Bible would imply that he passed all of his tests the first time, unlike us.

In mainstream Christianity, we are taught that his (human) nature was capable of profound suffering (the Garden, the Cross), as are we, and that he took on the sins of the world and died on the cross. (Some would also say that his Godlike nature also suffered.) A macrocosmic enactment of the cosmic drama. It is taught or implied in mainstream Christianity that the crucifixion was an absolute necessity because of our sinful nature. So, the response above ("NO!") warrants careful meditation. I do not yet understand it. In the microcosm, in Gnosis, we are to beg the Spirit and our Mother to incarnate the Christ, and he must be tested, baptized, betrayed, die and resurrect also? Isn't this also necessary? We are to be Christified, and then deified?

Although the chief of demons is crucified upside-down and locked in the abyss, I surely do not feel safe from its influence, for I am also locked in the abyss.

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Let the untainted emanation from the Christic Aura of the Infernal Christified Gods, who dwell in the abyss for the sake of this suffering humanity, envelop your soul throughout your path to Christ so that you may go out from within the abyss!

And, let your soul be blessed by the Master Aberamentho and give you more comprehension on this matter!

As for those who dwell in the abyss, yet, they think they are already chosen without walking on the path, let Jesus, himself, tell them........

Matthew 23:
29: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous,

30: And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31: Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32: Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36: Verily I say unto you all these things shall come upon this generation.

37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


The Initiatic crucifixion was, is and will always be an absolute necessity because of our sinful nature.

So, the response above ("NO!") means NO to his Physical Torturous Crucifixion.

[kazz]

Without physical crucifiction, who would show us the way? Perhaps it was not necessary for Jesus himself, but necessary for us, the evil generation who seeks after a sign? We (EGOS) are absolutely spiritually blind.

"None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

[Ralph]

Quoted with pronoun changes...

Let the untainted emanation from the Christic Aura of the Infernal Christified Gods, who dwell in the abyss for the sake of this suffering humanity, envelop our souls throughout our path to Christ so that we may go out from within the abyss!

And, let our souls be blessed by the Master Aberamentho and give us more comprehension on this matter!

------------------------

De profundis clamavi ad te Domine...

May God, who blesses all things, bless you for this Christ-like blessing.

The traditional Christian concept of grace is that it's pretty much an automatic thing, a gift that all of us receive. Justification by faith alone. So we take it for granted. Nice and pretty. The chief of demons knows Christian (and Jewish, and Hindu, etc.) theology better than we do, and uses it to make think we are doing well. This kind of slavery is hardly unique to the Jewish people, which was the original topic of this thread. We who have been hypnotized, who have sworn an oath of allegiance to the chief of all demons and its legions, must recant and walk a treacherous path.

The Gnostic theology of grace and salvation, so unfathomably mingled with eastern ideas of karma, seems to be more on target. We pray "save us from the time of trial", but it should be more like "guard us in the time of trial". And, deliver us from evil...(by guiding us out of the cold, dark depths of the Klipoth through Malkuth, into the warmth and light of heaven).

[kazz]

IMHO, the confusion in traditional Christianity (esp. Protestant) about works and Faith arises from the nature of works. When Bible talks about how "justification is not by works, but by faith" it means "not by works of the EGO". When it talks about "faith without works is dead like a body without a spirit is dead" it talks about not the works of the EGO ("our" works), but about Christic Works, or the Great Work. So Faith is not even possible without Works (Christic Works). Christic Works are not possible without Grace (one is brought to necessity of Great Work by Grace).

Similarly, Gnosis is not possible without Faith and Salvation is not possible without Gnosis.

Again, IMHO.

[Ralph]

NO!

"When the Elohim or Glorious Dhyanis started to weave in the Loom of God, they cried with pain when contemplating the twilight of the Uncreated Light that seemed to sink as a frightful setting sun.

"Then Jesus Christ, the Great Paramartha-satya, passed through the Dhyani-paza and came into the cosmic garden to save the Gods, whose innumerable virginal sparks or Jivas are devolving and evolving during this Mahakalpa.

"I, Samael Aun Weor, was witness of all of these things.  I saw when that Great Being entered the sanctuary and signed a pact of salvation for human beings and he crucified himself on his cross.

"I witness the dawn of the Mahamanvantara and give testimony of all of these things.
Later on, at the dawn of the fourth round, the Master sent his Buddha in order for him to prepare himself in this valley of tears.  That Buddha is his soul called Jesus.
And his Buddha lit his seven eternal lamps.

"And his Buddha raised his seven serpents throughout the seven canals of the candlestick.
Thus, when his Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, was prepared, there in the Jordan, his Resplendent Dragon of Wisdom entered within him in order to preach human beings and Gods.

"The sacrifice already happened on that occasion.  The commander of all Cosmic Christs, Jesus of Nazareth, already washed with his blood all the sins of the sanctuary and signed the pact between human beings and Kwan-Yin, the Army of the Voice, Vishnu, Osiris, the Great Breath."  Samael Aun Weor

This except contains great knowledge. From it, one must reach understanding, then wisdom. I'm not even at the first step of understanding. The phrase "the sacrifice already happened on that occasion" seems to imply that the baptism of Jesus (with the entry of the 2nd logos) was all that was necessary. Or perhaps it implies that the prior event (related to the Elohim) didn't HAVE to be repeated.

Now, I'm no fan of proof-texting but...how do we account for passages like:
Acts 2:22-24
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 4:25-28
Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

These (and others) SEEM to imply that the death of Jesus was foreordained (? "When the Elohim or Glorious Dhyanis started to weave in the Loom of God, they cried with pain when contemplating the twilight of the Uncreated Light that seemed to sink as a frightful setting sun."), but also part of God's plan for salvation. Wouldn't death necessarily preceed resurrection and ascension?

[Rebecca4]

NO!

"When the Elohim or Glorious Dhyanis started to weave in the Loom of God, they cried with pain when contemplating the twilight of the Uncreated Light that seemed to sink as a frightful setting sun.

"Then Jesus Christ, the Great Paramartha-satya, passed through the Dhyani-paza and came into the cosmic garden to save the Gods, whose innumerable virginal sparks or Jivas are devolving and evolving during this Mahakalpa.

"I, Samael Aun Weor, was witness of all of these things.  I saw when that Great Being entered the sanctuary and signed a pact of salvation for human beings and he crucified himself on his cross.

"I witness the dawn of the Mahamanvantara and give testimony of all of these things.
Later on, at the dawn of the fourth round, the Master sent his Buddha in order for him to prepare himself in this valley of tears.  That Buddha is his soul called Jesus.
And his Buddha lit his seven eternal lamps.

"And his Buddha raised his seven serpents throughout the seven canals of the candlestick.
Thus, when his Buddha, Jesus of Nazareth, was prepared, there in the Jordan, his Resplendent Dragon of Wisdom entered within him in order to preach human beings and Gods.

"The sacrifice already happened on that occasion.  The commander of all Cosmic Christs, Jesus of Nazareth, already washed with his blood all the sins of the sanctuary and signed the pact between human beings and Kwan-Yin, the Army of the Voice, Vishnu, Osiris, the Great Breath."  Samael Aun Weor

This except contains great knowledge. From it, one must reach understanding, then wisdom. I'm not even at the first step of understanding. The phrase "the sacrifice already happened on that occasion" seems to imply that the baptism of Jesus (with the entry of the 2nd logos) was all that was necessary. Or perhaps it implies that the prior event (related to the Elohim) didn't HAVE to be repeated.

Now, I'm no fan of proof-texting but...how do we account for passages like:
Acts 2:22-24
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 4:25-28
Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

These (and others) SEEM to imply that the death of Jesus was foreordained (? "When the Elohim or Glorious Dhyanis started to weave in the Loom of God, they cried with pain when contemplating the twilight of the Uncreated Light that seemed to sink as a frightful setting sun."), but also part of God's plan for salvation. Wouldn't death necessarily preceed resurrection and ascension?

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"We, the Brethren, while in the supreme instant of ecstasy, have entered through the doors of the Temple of Jerusalem. The Wailing Wall is all that remains in this valley of bitterness. Nonetheless, this temple still exists within the superior worlds. Filled with pain we walk through its courtyards and its passageways.

"We contemplate its magnificent Olympian columns with its beautiful steeples and its chambers, its golden and silver cups, as well its purple kneeling desks.

"The glory of the Lord Jehovah no longer shines within the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple because this sanctuary has been desolated. This sanctuary has been profaned.

"The Ark of Science with its sacred and terribly divine coupled Cherubims is no longer there.

"Now, only the Lord of Anguish is who we see within the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple. Only His sacred image is there, and it is a living image.

"So, the Image of the Adorable One is there, but the Jews laugh at Him, and they say: "This is the One who dreamed to be the promised Messiah, but we do not believe in Him."

"All of them laugh. Therefore, the sanctuary has been profaned. The veil of the temple was rent in twain because the sanctuary had already been profaned.

"With the killing of Christ, the sanctuary was profaned.

"We, the Brethren of the Temple, were walking throughout the interior of this temple. The courtyard of the priests was filled with sportsmen and merchants. Thus, this is what the Temple of Jerusalem became in the end.

"This humanity crucified the Christ, so they signed their own death sentence with innocent blood.

"Nonetheless, infinite Mercy granted us a short space of time in order for us to define ourselves for Christ or for Javhe (Javhe is not Jehovah), to define ourselves for the White Lodge or for the Black Lodge.

"We all deserved to have been destroyed because of the dreadful and horrible sacrilege. Christ was assassinated and the sanctuary profaned. However, infinite Mercy granted to us a short space more of time in order for us to study the doctrine of Christ and to choose the path." Aquarian Message by Samael Aun Weor